Room For Optimism: What We Learned From The Honda MotoGP Presentation

Team presentations tend to be rather turgid affairs. Hours of talk for a few brief moments of enlightenment. Which is why we sit through all those hours of talk, of course, because if you listen carefully and read between the lines, you might learn a thing or two.

Past experience left the MotoGP media looking at the Honda motorsport Q&A with some trepidation. Would it be worth sitting through the long presentations to dig out nuggets of interest?

That calculation changed on Thursday night, when HRC announced that Marc Marquez had been riding a motorcycle again, and would be present at the launch on Friday. Both developments which meant the media would get a chance to talk to Marquez about his eye injury, about the accident which caused it, and and how soon we might expect to see him on track again.

Riders pretty much universally hate media debriefs, and they hate them twice as much when they are done via Zoom. If we are lucky, they look disinterested. Usually, we are met with disdain. So seeing Marc Marquez looking positively cheerful and smiling was unexpected to say the least. He looked more cheerful than we have seen him since his return from injury at the beginning of last year.

The long road back

That in itself is instructive, but the details he gave of his condition gave plenty of reason to be optimistic. Marquez explained that he had 20 minutes at a local enduro circuit, run by Josep Garcia, FIM Enduro2 world champion, when he made the fateful decision to do a couple more laps. "I said, I’ll do 2 more laps before I go," Marquez explained. "At that point I crashed in a right corner. I had a kind of high side. I hit my head on the ground."

He had not immediately suffered ill effects, the Repsol Honda rider explained. "I got up, I stood up. I took the bike again and said I needed to go. I continued on my enduro trip. Then I arrived at home and took shower."

It was only later that he noticed something was wrong. "After 3 hours I start to feel something strange in the vision, something strange in the head." It was a worrying moment, because it brought back bad memories of the aftermath of Sepang 2011, when he crashed and damaged the nerve in his eye the first time. He turned to Dr. Sánchez Dalmau, who treated him after that injury. "Straight away I called the doctor and said I have this feeling. He said don’t panic. Wait 1 week, maybe it’s normal. Then after 1 week we will see if the problem is there."

Marquez and his entourage had waited a week to tell the media about his vision problems, on the advice of his doctor. The doctor first wanted to see if his vision restored itself of its own accord. "In the first week we didn’t say straight away because it was the advice of the doctor. He said, please, calm down, because sometime in the first weeks it can fix alone. But if in the first week it doesn’t then it’s a long time," Marquez said. But his vision did not return after a week. "It was a long period," Marquez said wryly.

The first month had been hard, he said. "In the first month I couldn’t have a normal life. I was on the sofa, I stand up, I was like 1 hour I try to go on the seat but it was impossible. The feeling was not great. So yeah, it’s difficult."

But after the first month, his situation started to improve. "Especially last month started better. When I started to feel better one week ago I started cycling with the road bicycle. Then cycling with mountain bike. The feeling was good, was better." That culminated in Dr. Sanchez giving the go ahead for Marquez to ride a motocross bike. "This week when I had doctor check he confirmed that feeling and allowed me to ride a bike."

Getting back in the saddle

Why had he chosen a motocross bike to make his return on? "One, because it was the bike I was injured on," Marquez explained. "And it’s a bike that is really demanding. For some jumps, you need completely all the vision."

That turned out well for Marquez. "The result was very positive. Now just I’m looking to the next step. All the Repsol team is trying to organize a test with CBR 1000 or the RCV [RC213V-S street bike]. Let’s see if we can organize soon and try in a GP circuit."

How soon? With the Sepang test imminent, the bet would be sooner rather than later. And which circuit? The Iberian peninsula has four circuits which host a grand prix, though given it is January, the further south the better. So either Jerez or Portimão are the most likely candidates.

The aim of testing on an asphalt circuit is to see how his vision holds up at high speed, and when he gets tired. "I want to follow the advice of doctor," Marquez explained. "He wants to see in a GP circuit with high speed alone. I mean, a one-day test with a lot of laps. To see when I get tired if I have some problems or not. My doctor want to evaluate all these things before allowing me to be at the Malaysian test."

Sepang or not Sepang?

Marquez spoke throughout of a conservative approach to his recovery, taking things step by step. Though he made it clear that he hoped to be at the Sepang test, he was careful not to say he would be there. But listening to Pol Espargaro and Takaaki Nakagami, who also spoke at the launch, they seemed convinced that Marquez would be ready to ride at Sepang.

"Marc coming in the preseason is going to be super important for all of us to try to set the best bike during those five days before starting the season," Pol Espargaro said. "Also Marc said he will come back in Malaysia, so four riders in Malaysia," Nakagami told us. "I'm really happy to hear Marc will come back in Malaysia."

What can we read into Marquez' statements. It seems that the Repsol Honda rider was genuinely scared at the start of his injury. Unsurprisingly, given how the last time he suffered an eye injury in 2011, he came very close to being forced to end his career, with only surgery and excellent treatment saving his sight. But as his vision returned to normal, he grew ever more confident.

The fact that he has managed without surgery has also given Marquez confidence. He and his doctor have followed a very conservative path, trying to delay a decision on surgery for as long as possible. That was the right decision, it appears at the moment, with Marquez believing he is back at full fitness.

He has also had time to work on rehabilitating his right shoulder, the shoulder which was fixed with surgery in the winter of 2019/2020, and which caused problems again for him after the massive smash in Jerez in 2020, which would end up costing him the 2020 season, and the first half of 2021. Having treatment for the double vision in his eyes interfered with the recovery of his shoulder, but he was still able to work on it.

Whether the shoulder is completely healed is something Marc Marquez is keen to find out. Right now, everything is looking good, but he will need to start riding a MotoGP bike to make an accurate assessment. "We are planning the perfect way because shoulder is much better, the arm is much better," he said. "But we need to understand the better way to work during the season to not have the same problems like last year, these kinds of irritations. Then the pain arrives, and then everything becomes more difficult. We need to prepare all these things."

What Marquez' words, and more importantly, his demeanor, have done is flip the script we started the week with. At a stroke the speculation over Marquez' future is pretty much over, replaced by the question of whether he will be at the Sepang test, or if he will have to wait until Mandalika the week after. But there is little doubt he will be fit and ready to race at the season opener in Qatar on March 6th.

The new machine

Marquez being back for the Sepang test would be important for the development of the 2022 Honda RC213V. Marquez rode the radically redesigned bike at Misano, and felt it was better. Nakagami and Espargaro had worked with it at the Jerez test, as did Alex Marquez briefly, and all had praise for the bike.

The biggest difference between the old and the new RC213V is the weight balance. Previously, the bike had a massive forward weight bias, which gave it an incredible front end, capable of braking late and turning in hard. That came at a cost, however, as the weight on the front meant less on the rear, and that in turn meant less rear grip.

Anyone not named Marc Marquez struggled with the rear grip, unable to find drive and being forced to take risks on corner entry to make up for the ground lost on corner exit. "Last season we definitely really struggled about the rear grip," Nakagami explained. "And unfortunately, we tried many things, but the main problem did not disappear. So we struggled a lot for the qualifying lap and race distance. Then I have to take extra risk. And then unfortunately I had some crashes during practice and the races. So it was really tough."

Pol Espargaro had also struggled, especially at the beginning of the season. Examining Marc Marquez' data had given him a hint at how to get more out of the RC213V. "Technically it's something I discovered, the way of opening the throttle, it's important to do it in a different way than I was doing. With this low grip, I couldn't open as aggressive as I normally do. Then I couldn't use the rear brake as I normally was doing in the other categories or on the other bikes. I was playing so much on the entry with the rear brake, and this last year I couldn't do that. And for me this was one of the reasons that I was struggling so much during last year."

Fixing corner entry

While his team had made some changes to the bike, Espargaro had changed his riding, and this had made a huge difference. "We discovered different tools to improve this entry side without using so much rear brake, but I was suffering a lot," he said. He was changing his approach to training, riding more flat track and motocross to work on his throttle control in low grip conditions, he explained. "So for sure I'm training in a different way, doing a different kind of motorcycle disciplines which allow me to be more sensitive on the throttle opening and on the rear brake entry. Hopefully this is going to help me in the 2022 season."

A lack of grip was not an issue for Marc Marquez, Pol Espargaro explained. "On the old bike, Marc was a genius and is a genius, because his way of riding is the best one. It's not that the bike was fitting him more than the others, it's because he's good. He is a guy who is used to ride with this low grip, I would say problems. So he was adapting his style to this low grip and he is able to take the maximum performance from this low grip."

This is where Espargaro had learned from Marquez. "For me, at the beginning of the year especially, it was super hard to know how to ride the bike in this way, to take the maximum potential in acceleration. How to not spin too much, but being fast at the same time. And this is very important, and his way of taking the throttle and the administration of the throttle in the corner, by opening the throttle plus picking up the bike, this is something that I really need to learn and I'm working quite a lot on it in the preseason, to try to be better next year."

The changes to the 2022 bike are to move the weight balance further backward and to create more mechanical rear grip, to get more drive out of corners. "Next year's bike is a bit different, it's based on the rear grip which I think it's going to allow all of us to improve the condition of the throttle opening in a different way," Espargaro said.

"Definitely the new bike is big improved about the rear grip and also engine performance," Takaaki Nakagami agreed. "Many parts of the racing bike have improved. As you can see from the outside, there is a big change of the shape. And you can see how Honda is working so hard during the season."

That is also an important factor for 2022. Throughout his career, Marquez has relied on corner entry to make the difference, outbraking his rivals to take victory. He accepted a lack of rear grip because he could ride around it, using his exceptional throttle control and smoothness to match drive to grip, and his ability to pick the bike up early and use as much of the tire as possible. His only request was for more horsepower, to match the speed of the Ducatis along the straight. That was what brought him the title in 2019.

Reinventing Marc

If the 2022 bike has more rearward weight bias, Marquez will have to find new ways of stopping and turning the bike to outbrake his rivals. Motorcycle design, and especially racing motorcycle design is a lesson in compromise, in choosing your disappointments, deciding which area you are prepared to sacrifice in order to gain elsewhere.

Throughout Marquez' time in MotoGP, rear grip has been sacrificed for braking and turning. For the 2022 bike, HRC are going in the opposite direction. The question is, can Marquez make the same about-face? There is no doubting his talent. But requiring a change in riding philosophy comes on top of many other complications – shoulder, eyes, arm – which Marquez faces. He has a lot to deal with.

One reason to focus on grip was to improve corner exit and top speed, to take advantage of the added horsepower the new Honda has. "What we asked for, as Taka said before, the grip was something important for all of us," Pol Espargaro told us. "But also if we have seen in the past year that the Ducatis are super strong in the straights, it's the key to overtake, and their key to fight for the races. So if we want to do a good season, next year, more Ducatis are going to be on the grid, so this means that we need to be faster on the straights to try to fight with them, to try to get positions back, and even to defend them."

Necessary faster

This is the challenge facing all four Honda riders. With eight Ducatis on the grid, that is a lot of fast bikes to have to get in front of. And even if the 2022 Honda RC213V is an improvement on the 2021 bike, the other factories are not standing still. It's all very well the new bike having more horsepower than last year, but if the Ducatis are faster again, Honda won't be making any headway against them.

With this in mind, Pol Espargaro was cautious in his appraisal of the new bike. "Well, I mean the bike is better, but it's still too early to talk about how much better it is," Espargaro said. "Because first of all, we need to put the bike on the track together with the other bikes, and see where we are. We are not the only ones playing in this game, and we are not the only ones putting a new bike on the track."

The point was not so much how much faster the Honda was, according to Pol Espargaro, but how much faster the Honda was compared to the other bikes on the MotoGP grid. "Everyone is doing the same, and everyone is going to do a step up. So how good is the bike going to be? We will see in a few days in Malaysia, together with the other bikes. There's no sense saying the bike is much better if we ride two tenths faster but the others improve half a second. It's something that we need to keep working on. So everything is important, everything matters, but I think the way is good, but we need to keep a little bit calm and see what is going on in the next two tests."

Light at the end of the tunnel?

If you are a Honda fan, is there reason to be optimistic? All four of HRC's riders have proven themselves to be capable of fighting for podiums, and of course, Marc Marquez is the best and most successful rider of his generation, the rider with the most victories now that Valentino Rossi has retired. Marquez looked cheerful and motivated, and confident that he would be racing this season at close to full fitness. The Honda RC213V has more rear grip and more horsepower, and should be an easier bike to make go fast. A complete redesign always brings teething problems, but HRC has the resources to solve them relatively quickly.

So yes, the future is looking bright for Honda. They even have a new logo to go with this new era. And the fact that HRC can head into 2022 with confidence, and a fit Marc Marquez behind them, will give their rivals pause for thought. 2022 just got immeasurably tougher.


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Comments

Now that he is better, I would like to ask all those self important moral busy bodies masquerading as "journalists", if they would like to apologize to the fans they slammed as being "misinformed" and "ignorant" and all other terms that "journalists" use to shut down debate when fans doubted if it was just a concussion. I mean the first thing that came to my head when it was announced that  he would be missing from the next race was "holy c**p. Is his eye ok?". Because I have been re watching the 2012 Moto 2 season. Combined with the fact that Marc recently is very careful about injuries and even more careful about giving out information, this was a genuine question

But no. Twitter was full "people of science" accusing anyone who asked a genuine question of being "misinformed" or "ignorant" about concussion. 

In my experience it's always been second or third year undergraduates who displayed classic Dunning Kruger effect. Now it's "people of science" in twitter. 

They say it is frowned up on to say I told you so. But I think it is extremely important to say I told you so. 

New tone to the comments. Wrong turn. Not a wheel has been turned in anger, nothing is resolved, nothing is really known at this point. A bit early for the gloat iyam.

 I don't know what you mean by not a wheel turned in anger. I'm not talking about the future. I'm talking about genuine questions asked by people when it was first announced that he would be missing a race due to concussion. People doubting if it was just that and "journalists" calling them all sorts of names. Turns out. Those people were right. 

People need to be held accountable for the vitriol they spread. It's simple. Apologize to the people you called names when you are wrong. Without that there are to checks. I'm not talking about David here. I haven't seen him doing that. And I'm not talking about me either. I only have a Twitter account to look at MotoGP news and a couple of other interests. I never engage with anyone on twitter. 

But I have seen a fair few fall into that category. Maybe they will think about it twice next time. 

At race pace with other bikes around is what I mean by wheel turned in anger. Why so angry? I have paid attention to what's going on and I don't see the issue? You're being a bummer, man. Modest proposal: chill.

I know what that expression means. I'm saying that I'm not talking about the future of Marc Marquez. I'm talking about what happened. 

Because it kinda pissed me off when it happened. It was along the lines of "Those who doubt the official story, people like you are the reason why concussion is not taken seriously......". 

Like I said, I don't engage with anyone on twitter. I'm just talking about what happened. They were so sure of yourself and they were utterly wrong. Where is the acknowledgement? 

You say what "it happened". Is there a subject? Is your comment directed at one person or group or ??? Sorry if it seems I'm attacking you but man, you're harshing on my mellow, if you know what I mean.

T-shirt on over the snowmobile suit no doubt. 44F this morning here. 70 now though so I'll be fine, thanks, in case you were worried for me. Going on the mtb now for a couple hours. Cheers, man, winter's going fast we'll be back to action soon.

Not to rub it in but I spent all weekend poolside and having a good old perv at a local vineyards resort, and we just did a hot-air balloon ride watching the sunrise followed by a champage breakfast. Shirt and shorts was the most clothing I wore all weekend!

I took the little person for a nice country ride on the Multi for a lunch date earlier this week too!

/incredibly humble bragging

Welcome to the Internet. You must be new around here. 

Not talking about trolls. Talking about supposed professionals. 

No one knows anything other than we saw a video released by MM that makes it look as though MM is fine. That's a long way from finality. Too soon to be condemning or vindicating anyone, imo, lest the vindicated become the unvindicated at first get off.

If MM is in perfect health, an 'if', maybe not a big one, what happens when he tries to find the limit on a brand new bike? Can he crash to find the limit? Can he make himself crash knowing a good knock could be very bad? Will he be fast enough if doesn't crash? Can he hold up for more than half the season? The whole season? Maybe someone knows but I doubt it. Too soon

 

Even if Marc never rides a motorbike in his life again, those who said in the beginning that this is more than just concussion were true. Even if the world ends tomorrow, it was true. I don't know what you're getting at. 

You're saying there were people who said he wasn't injured??? Or the eye issue? I think we're circling in on a subject, I'd hate to give up when we're so close.

Outside of Marc and his inner clique and his eye doctor no one knew anything and to add to it, neither Marc nor his doctor knew exactly what was up or how quickly it would heal. He fell off and had what appeared to be a concussion. He didn't feel right in the head and was going to wait for further advice.

So realistically this whole "GOTCHA!" thing is rather pathetic. No one knew shit. Nobody owes you an apology for apparently knowing more than Marc and his Doctor did at the time because that is utter garbage. You, like everyone else outside of his inner circle were operating on the exact same information. Journalists report on the facts. In this case it was what they in the know released to the media - who are they to say whether or not it is anything more or less? Everyone had their theories and just because it ended up being more than a concussion, who cares? That doesn't mean jack. Your stab in the dark was correct? So? Plenty of people said the same thing and I'm sure David and everyone else had their pet theories as well. So? Again, we should care why exactly?

"Marc fell off and had a small concussion - he will miss the next race and will be evaluated in a week"

- Autistic screeching about IT'S MORE THAN THAT -

Facts - Journalists. Marc. Honda. The Dr - nobody knew what would happen after that week of letting it sit.
Facts - Marc fell off and had a concussion and didn't come good straight away.
Facts - You did not know anything more than any of those people.

So who really cares? Life is too short for this shit. Cut it away. This isn't Crash.net and it never was. Pin your medals on your chest, puff it out and go walk the pit lane of your local track meet and tell everyone about your prophetic skills.

Or start your own MotoGP blog up and let us all profit from your visionary skills. I'll come and read it, I'm sure it'll be a riot.

I remember everybody having the same questions when MotoGP switched from Bridgestones to Michelins. With the Michelin front being weaker than Bridgestones. And from what I can see, he was pretty happy with the bike when he tested it. So I wouldn't worry too much about him being able to adapt. 

Ok I get what you're confused with. 

Marc falls down from his bike. This was around 4 days to a week before the race. They announced he won't be racing the following weekend. So fans said that this is more than just a simple concussion. Then the "journalists" start calling the fans names saying things like "people like you are the reason why concussion is not taken seriously" and every other evil in the universe like self righteous "journalists" do. Then Marc announces it wasn't a simple concussion and he was having vision issues. Which was my first thought when I heard about his concussion. Which is what fans said in the first place. 

It was an "I came in in the middle of a conversation" type thing and I shoulda just ignored the whole deal as being not my beeswax. Thanks. Plus I might be losing some marbles.

I think Poseidon you can take some solace in that it was not personal, just procedural...like Arnie killing people in Terminator. Despite offering opinions about you in order to shoot you down, you were never more than a graphical representation on a HUD.

I would say though that an individual and their doctor withholding information from the public is entirely understandable and reasonable.

I spent 4 winters at -30c (+/- 5) good winds making it -50c. I can say, with some qualification, it is crap weather.

Great to see the him back, MM vs Baggers vs Quarty

We shot a 400lb pig here today. I very much misunderstood how hard it is to put a pig down. 4 shots from my pistol and it ran around between them mad, breaking through a fence. Then we skinned and gutted it, which was for sure easier business.

I came here for a break from it all, but it kind of looks the same here too? I hope we all get some bacon!

;)

Viva MotoGP. We have a humdinger season on our hands methinks. Going to go try to find old footage of Bagnaia battling in Moto2, curious what we are in for when he gets tet a tet battled. 

Gee I haven't seen a game of tennis being played in this educated forum since I've been a member,though educated doesn't imply less opinionated, at the very least it's comforting to observe that most know they're theres from there theirs!!! Lol!  If it weren't for the recognisable names I'm sure I wouldve thought I was on Farcebook  looking for that 'Michael jackson eating popcorn meme'.. 

Let us hope this barrage remains a rare anomaly...

 

...like that time....was it malaysia? when Rossi kic.....

I took it Gnommmm, gnommmm , smack. Hook and sinker. And that!!! the bait, ws not the result of a concussion but a brain fart!!!! :-). A big one at that. LOLOLOL

I have no idea what is going on, or who is referring to what, but it would be nice if we could all calm down. A lot of people say a lot of things on Social Media (and there is pressure to make quick judgments, to be the first). Complex cases like this, nobody knows what is going on. I know Honda didn't know what was going on for a long time. I'm not even sure Marc Marquez knew exactly what the issue was for a while.

I could give you my opinion of what happened, but I suspect my opinion on this is pretty worthless. It looks like a concussion combined with nerve issues. But I am neither a neurologist nor an opthalmologist, and I haven't had a chance to physically examine Marc Marquez, nor see his medical records.

Yes let us all calm down. Thanks David. It is going to be a good season.

There will be real stuff to talk about soon. Less than 3 weeks till the Sepang test.

Marc Marquez will likely be there or thereabouts. Fully fit for first race, yeah!

Giacomo Agostini is the real G.O.A.T. because Ago raced at the TT.

And Mike Hailwood is too!

Them feral pigs is tuff Shrink, yur gunna need a bigger pistol.

Yep, the comments section, once a bastion of (usually) balanced and interesting discussion, has become a bit indistinguishable from other sites over the last year or two. Here's hoping that passes.

... it's still completely distinguishable from most comment sections I've ever bothered to look at. Balanced and interesting? For me, definitely. Lots of clever people posting here.

Now comes the overreaction and the hand wringing - Oh, whatever will ah dooo??? Ma comment section contains comments that I don't want to read. Whatever will I dooooooooo???? 

Come on people, have a little perspective, ffs. You saw something you wish you hadn't seen. Try to get over it. This is the most civilized spot online and that hasn't changed. The season is just around the corner, I pray we all make it safely.

Misses the point Brian. Half of the reason I came to Motomatters, stayed and subscribed, was for the comments section. It added to rather than subtracted from the pleasure of reading what's going on. It's part of the 'product' as they say in marketing circles. The comments were something to look forward to and there seemed to be a collective will to keep it that way, supported by the odd bit of policing, but also through respecting others POV rather than 'other'-ing or ridiculing. Time was when we didn't have snarky responses like yours but now we do. I don't enjoy that and, as I say, I hope it passes.

Or you could think, how will this be received? Is this friendly? Or is it just a cleaner version of crash.net?

Sorry my response was misplaced on accident. I meant to respond directly to you.

Let's just move on shall we. The last thing I want to be doing here is p***ing someone off, not my thing at all. 

^ Once in a while we do something a bit like this here. I had a go with two people here, both of which with whom we are in a really good and respectful, even supportive, spot. Thank you! It went on in 2006 here as I recall, not new at ALL.

Everyone really loves motorcycle racing around here, that is for sure. There are a few touchy difficult subjects. "Exceeding track limit warning" is a good easy metaphor, it is basically ok. Maybe "cooling off over heated tires" is another good one? Around respect vs difficulty with Marquez has been one touchy subject. Given some of what has occurred on track, it makes some sense.

Our community here has gotten quite personal, sometimes I REALLY appreciate that! At times there is some barking too. We're human. 

I sincerely apologize if my part here has erred too far into personal chit chat, and/or just plain over posting cheapening the quality. I am inclined to tighten it up. Besides, the first Test outing is arriving! Team presentations are on. We are making it through Winter Break, during a pandemic noneless.

And, MARC MARQUEZ is back on. It has been tense. Think of what it must be like for the 10 or so MotoGP riders that this directly changes the complexion of the season for? Wanna bet that Bagnaia has started watching footage of Marquez and doing strategy planning? Stress up, confidence challenged? Maybe. I just looked at footage of Pecco fighting in Moto2 seeking more info.

This may go over really poorly in ironic fashion. But, even the most Italian yellow-lensed Tribe Chihuahua person in our community, isn't there something basically good about M.Marquez returning to racing? Even if you loathe him personally? He is clearly one of the Top 3 riders. Bagnaia on a Ducati has a prime adversary, an actual VR46 progeny on the top bike taking it to the pointy business. Brilliant! And, it triggers people. Okay! I get it. Part of me rather liked that Biaggi met a mosquito in a stairwell. 

Hopeful that technical discussions resume here. Not my fortee. And readers from long ago return, heck start a discussion topic. Pictures of the new Honda HAVE to be revealing something to somebody. Jinx? Old timers?

Glad people care about the site, it is something really special. Tires cool. Cheers folks. "To the racing!"

Really? My comments are this bad? Lilyvani, dude, really? I asked for perspective, was that unwarranted? I gotta understand where you're coming from. It's the offseason, people are going off topic in plenty of ways. There is taunting with provocative videos being repeatedly posted for effects which aren't necessarily 'friendly', might even be 'snarky', but wtf is wrong with that? There are extracurricular activities being celebrated that, gasp, aren't racing. I haven't seen you climb all over anyone else yet you're on me. I have been trying to deescalate more than descending into snark. You can police this section as you wish. You seem to be the gatekeeper. I'll do my best to stay out of your way. You can climb down off me now. TYVM