MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks

The HRC machine is right here and right now. Guareschi and Battaini were strolling Jerez lap after lap developing the GP 11, not more than a few weeks back.
In all fairness they had a huge success in Jerez. 3rd and 5 placed.
2012 is a 2012 issue and a 1 litre draught issue.
As of now,the only manufacturer's way ahead of their rivals are Honda and Yamaha.
A good dry race in Estoril will give me a better perspective as to 2011 seasons potential.
Wosideg,Casey is the new recruit within HRC. Surely you should be asking HRC when will Dani,Simmo and Dovi be testing the new Honda.

I've had this question for a while and I'm not sure if you've answered it yet. The testing ban of '11 bikes is for contract riders only. We've already seen Ducati run several tests at different locations with Franco and Vito. If the testing ban is a money saving measure, where are the reductions in cost between running with the test riders and the contract riders?

Do you think you will be able to get a displacement number? ;)

Am I right in saying that they were the first factory to test their 800 during the 2006 season as well?

Huge issue the # 1. Nicky failed with it,Casey did. George,I think will carry it into 2012 and probably beyond. I'm biased.I've got a pile of money bet on #1,#27 and # 11 for the title.
So far,half decent.
Seriously though,Japan took a massive hit,which may even compromise their GP and SBK efforts. The country got another massive aftershock a couple of minutes back.
The way George,Dani,Ben and Casey go about their business on the day remains an absolute pleasure to watch 'On any Sunday'.
Then again,Etna,Vesuvias and old Santorini may yet have a say.
Moto GP 2011,nothing is cast in stone. Long wait untill Estoril. Enjoy an untimely 'off season'.

Just because HRC and Pedrosa have sorted the 2011 RCV it does not necessarily translate that the 2012 variant will automatically be a good 'un. Different engine / power delivery characteristics primarily leading to different chassis reaction.

The Ducati test team of Battaini and Guareschi have already proven that their input is valid only up to a point - lacking that last 3-4% of G.P speed where the problems really manifest themselves. The GP boys and their crews are the ones to really highlight strengths and weaknesses.

Thinking cynically, does any one know what mechanism's are in place to confirm that the bikes being tested are indeed GP12s. Do the factories have to provide data confirming the increased capacity of the bike?
Hopefully first pictures will make some differences clear.

Their currently in such a bad situation that they should be testing of 2012. Their bike is in such a jacked up bind this year. Looks like they need a TOTAL revamp of this years bike. The direction they have been going needs to change.

Cannot wait for pics to be posted. Hopefully there will be some frame and engine shots. Hopefully something so that we can all study and see the differences between the GP11 and GP12. Wondering how the rear linkage will look, swingarm, the front end. Their Chassis seems to be the least settled out of all the bikes. The engine power seems to be good. But that CHASSIS! Wow! Almost looks cheaply done compared to other teams.

Stoner being on the Honda and telling everyone the power and bike is smooth has definitely had an effect on the Pedrosa side of the garage. The complaints seem to have quieted down a little. For Stoner, after getting off that bucking bull called Ducati, this efficient little Honda is a piece of cake.

I'm curious to see how Ducati responds to the bind they've put themselves in. I remember reading that their 990 bike's biggest issue was the long engine, when placed forward enough in the chassis to achieve the correct weight distribution, was so far forward that the front tire would leave rubber on the front cylinder head during hard braking. They had to wrap the fork legs in carbon to stiffen them against bending during hard braking and add flex to the steering head and triple clamps to compensate for compliance when leaned over.

The 800 rules bailed them out a little bit in that respect, allowing them slightly more latitude, via the shorter engine, to position it better. Still, obviously, it's not a perfect solution.

Ducati has staunchly clung to their "L" configuration to maintain corporate identity, but I just don't see how that's going to be possible under the new rules. If they up their displacement above 800cc, they're going to be forced to cap their bore at 81mm--5mm smaller than on the GP06. This equates to an engine that's even 6mm LONGER than the engine in the GP06 that was such a nightmare to package. That's at 1000cc. Even at the rumored 930cc, that engine still has a 2.5mm longer stroke than the GP06.

Ducati needs to get some weight over the front wheel. I imagine the GP12's engine is either going to be tipped up a bit, or the V angle closed up. I don't see what choice they have.

its awesome that its taken the mighty Honda this long to balance the 800 package to it's current, seemingly infallible state yet it already lost a race, bummer dude. Ducati, while tiny, has with the help of Rossi and Hayden attracted some HEAVY sponsors that may not get them the 2011 title but I'll bet their investors see the rainbow glowing in the years to come. I think I read here that both riders are under contract for 2012 when the global economy is due to improve.

Are they saying screw the dead formula, we'll spot you this one if you can take it? I am super competitive and never quit even to my doom, but I like the business end too, I would do it just to slay the HUGE dragon again.

Surely, the existence of any 'gentleman's agreement' to allow additional testing by contracted riders beyond the official schedule ought to be, for the sake of transparency, officially confirmed?

All power to Ducati's right arm etc. for having their machine ready so early, but if any manufacturers have a claim to 'extenuating circumstances' right now, it's the Japanese with the entire nation having to exercise a paradigm shift in life's priorities. It seems to me that anything less would indicate a really serious breach of fair play.

Hope we get to see the times..

Am I right in thinking that any team can run a 800cc engine next year?
If this is the case what is stopping Nicky and Val testing an updated package of the GP11 and Ducati just stick a GP12 emblem on it?
(Or any other team for that matter).

Are any other factory teams using their current GP riders for testing next years bikes?

You guys have been some of the better contributors since I joined the site a couple of years back, and I had noticed fewer contributions from you since the a lot of the posting got loud and fannish in the last 6-8 months.

They will need all the testing they can do, look for changes in the V angle.

The ban on testing is adhered to out of a gentlemen's agreement already. It only takes a minor and mechanically insignificant change to a bike to be considered not a MotoGP bike and free for testing in regards to the rules. So, testing the GP11 is certainly possible since there is no verification.

I wonder what kind of tyres they uses, especially if we are going to compare laptimes with the 800's..

Being an L configuration,the lump is a beaut as a primary balanced engine.In those days,the first thing we would do is throw the unwanted flywheel away. Enhanced the 'screamer' capability without the vibration. The chassis is the issue not the engine layout.
Horses for courses may be the way for Ducati to go. Fast and flowing circuit,the low C of G is fine. Tight and twisty, it's a pain in the neck, arms and shoulders.
Its the difference between riding a longitudal L twin to work and back everyday and comparing the experience with that of doing the same thing with a transverse 4.
Post 2003,Yamaha had the low C of G issue.JB and Yamaha adressed it immediately by raising the lump 50mm in the frame so it could be flicked in the slow stuff.
Ducati can do this by tilting the lump backwards a little and lifting it a couple of mm,thus raising the C of G.
Problem is,that will unload the front even more when it is not desired.
No easy fix for Ducati,but as it is a prototype class with no chassis restrictions, they have the money to play horses for courses within the chassis.
Its almost for them,a case of tire selection equating to chassis selection based on circuit layout.
The motor is and always has been,fundamentally the best. It just causes the chassis to run out of options too often by the very nature of its excellence.
GP12 testing in Jerez.Legal and why not.
At the end of the day,Valentino will have to ride around its idiosynchrosies race in and race out.Ducati will not build an RSV4, nor an RC211V or M1 for 2012.

The cylinder fouls the front wheel if they tilt the engine back even a few mm that has been tried before. Even in the 500cc days all manufacturers moved away from the 90deg format. The strict adherence to the 90 deg angle is what is holding them back.

I see some of you guys talking about V angle with regards to weight distribution. How about we think about it in terms of inner dynamics too. I remember reading somewhere that with a 90° V4, Ducati doesn't need any trick ala crossplane, as the configuration of the engine inherently carries this "inertial torque cancellation" Yamaha has been trying to replicate on M1's and R1's inline fours with their fancy crankshaft config. I remember reading also that such considerations are far from anything new for all those Yankees racing V8 sports cars (but applicable to any V engine).

Also Rossi has been complaining about the power delivery of the engine, but at the same time he and Hayden both praise its great traction, even in the wet.

My point is : isn't there some king of trade-off between chassis / weight distribution issues and engine balance / traction.