MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks

Zarco did not exceed track limits, Mir and Olivera did. Why is Zarco behind them? Shouldn't they each be put back a place and Zarco placed 2nd? The point is not how many places Zarco is moved it's that each of the guys ahead of him 'cheated'. Am I overthinking? Seems to me they called 'off-setting penalties' but they neglected the rider with them who played by the rules. This happened last year when Pol went off track ahead of Mir but was not placed behind Mir. I'm not clear on this concept

^ Howdy Brian and Co! I hear you, Zarco was just 5 tenths off Mir. The rule says drop one spot. First Oliveira. Then, same next for Mir. If Mir had done it first, JZ5 would have gotten 2nd. Bad luck for Zarco. It isn't time, and it isn't long lap. Just the letter of the law, this is the method and they have to be consistent. (Context IS interesting though! To be fair, the shape of the green line there, doesn't it look a bit off too? Not sure if those two had warnings, it didn't look like we had repeat offenders).

Mugello did not go as expected for Bagnaia and Ducati. Beautiful holeshot, lovely racing for Pecco until a very costly and upsetting error. A bit off line momentarily changed the limit. On display was the ease that the Ducati and KTM had in passing on straights, then blocking the momentum of the Yamahas and Suzukis. It was really cool to see Quartararo and Mir get proferred a scripted inside pass opportunity entering corners too. Well under control, expected and set up. Cool race!

Being off line was a strong theme today. While the striped paint has good grip and is reasonably smooth, it is different and upsets the bike. Not just Pecco, Nakagami too.
Off line triggered track limits for Oliveira AND Mir together battling for the finish. Mir had little view locked into the KTM tail. The shape of the paint line there looks like it could be improved. It ends with a pointy bit that should be smoothed out and rounded slightly. Congrats to Oliveira and KTM who both looked great. 

Binder got hit pretty hard from the inside on the left by Marc. I wonder if that affected his race. Will be looking for interview in which he lets us know if he or his bike had any difficulty. Marc's return has NOT been at all to plan. There isn't clear reason for long term concern. It is still Summer Break before he is expected to be approaching fit. My pick for him to challenge the Championship has looked optimistic, even tipped him to win it just to be contrarian and bring me fun risk. But not changing crystal ball regarding his full return late in the season, even aboard this Crapsol Honduh. 

The Suzuki riders slowed each other up. Mir looked the stronger racer again as Rins delayed passing Miller. Importantly, the patented Rins unforced error under pressure to perform happened spot on yet again. He has something as clear as it gets insisting upon his developing as a rider. Tough to see. Great race Mir! Nice consistency.

Did Zarco change Bastiannini's luck at the starting grid? No. He was braking hard to set the ride height adjuster. While this is a new phenomena, it is the norm. Betting Bastiannini was distracted momentarily. Do the stoppies at the END like Miller mate!

Along with Rins, Vinales unfortunately needs noting. He remains consistent with his inconsistency. He is at a crossroads in his career. Unlike previous seasons the bike is there in the groove, and this is a difficulty most clearly of his own. It can be overcome. He has the potential. These stories are as captivating and compelling as that of the ones that leave mortal orbit. The hows and whys, nuance and detail. Man, machine and circumstance. They are still heroes to me. Sincerely.

The youth of Bagnaia and Quartararo up front is something to expect more of. The Ducati handling has finally broken through a threshold with this 2020/2021 bike. The Yamaha motor is similarly back within limits. Just behind them comes the Suzuki, moreso as the race wears on. The KTM has gotten back to form after a brief struggle with tires. Aprilia has gotten their new machine to form, albeit including a brief recent reliability blip. You can smell two more bikes and a new kid are coming to slot in and grab a podium. Honda? Needs an intervention by loved ones.

Last praise, Orange is back, and this is a good thing indeed. Two of their four riders have more yet to come in a surging trajectory. The bike too, right? If Bagnaia was the heart sinking sorrow if the day, it is Miguel Oliveira that champions the inverse. Fantastic race MO88! Congrats Orange engineers.

Hey Shrink, I believe final lap penalty for etl is lose a place because a couple years ago I-can't-remember-who used the green to slingshot onto the final straight. He hadn't used his warnings so thought it was good strategy. Dorna put a stop to it. I think the curb in question should be extended about a meter. When every race brings the same stupid infraction maybe it's time to look at the rule.

Marc should take off until after the break or better yet 2022. Of course, we don't know what the bike may be by then. Pol certainly wouldn't want the bike to suit Marc, the longer MM is gone the more the bike moves away from him. Plus shoulders...we all know are the worst. I'd hate to see it become career ending but he can't be doing it any good slamming it into the pavement and tumbling through the gravel - although today he had a safe slide.

Couldn't stop laughing at the absurdity of the Basta 'stoppie-ouchy' boner. I've done things just as stupid but my lord that was a perfect storm of uh-oh!

Fabio and Mir are so stylish in their passes, such elegance and ease, wonderful. Hey Hamamatsu, howza bout you poach Frankie and drop the disappointing one? Make it so

KTM's fuel,,,hmmmmmm  /squints

Marquez clearly cannot physically handle the bike. He, his handlers or the doctors should put a halt to his "return".

I was willing to give him a bye stalking Vinales, honor being what it is, but bashing Binder--in a right hander no less, his admitted kryptonite this year--and ruining Morbidelli's race was ridiculous. How would Marc have reacted if a backmarker with no chance of a good finish made that move on him in the past?

Anyway, I will pat myself on the back for being such a genius as to pick FQ for the championship. Please never mind that I also picked Rins and Vinales for 2nd and 3rd. I figured they would finally mature and turn raw speed into winning. Guess not.   

Always seems odd that whenever Mir overtakes Miller, its usually a bit bargey and sends Miller wide.  Not the first time that has happened this year.  

Zarco cannot be blamed for Bastiannini's error.  As all Motogp riders ritually brake hard on the starting grid to perform 3 functions, that used to be just 2 (Warm the front tyre the last little bit, warm the brakes that last little bit and now engage the front holeshot), Enea should have been paying more attention.

Now that just aout all Manufacturers have the front and rear start devices, i think its time Dorna just says, we are banning the front one based on safety.  Having to brake hard to engage it with other bikes around could be more than enough reason to get rid of them.  I dont think the Manu's will complain too much with losing the front start device.  They of course wont want to get rid of the rear device as Ducati, Yamaha and KTM are clearly using that as a shapeshifter during the race and therefore those Manu's will think it is offering them an advantage.  But the front?  nah.....  just ditch it.

As for track excursions...... cant Dorna just stick to painting the "outside" of the curb green, and leave the ends to how they have always been in the past (curb that ends in grass).  there isnt a need for green at the end of the curb.  the green is supposed to prevent advantage.  clearly the outside offers an advantage as they risk crashing touch grass there, but the end.....?.  

Here’s the FIMMotoGP Stewards update of 21 September 2019 on exceeding track limits on the last lap. It’s clumsily drafted but the final sentence is perfectly clear:

‘At the Gran Premio Michelin® de Aragon and following consultation with the Safety Commission, it has been decided to update the protocol for track limit infractions that occur on the last lap of a race.

From now on, an infraction on the last lap that has affected a race result must indicate that the rider in question was disadvantaged by exceeding track limits. If the Stewards deem there is no clear disadvantage, the rider will be penalised with a change of position or a time penalty. This is to ensure that any rider exceeding track limits on the final lap must be in a worse position than the rider or riders with whom they are directly competing for a finish position.

Decisions regarding track limits are the sole responsibility of the FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel and are final, with infractions confirmed by video. There is no possibility of protest or appeal.’

In my opinion the authorities are wrongly considering at what point last lap infringements take place. This is irrelevant. The stated purpose of the regulation ‘ is to ensure that any rider exceeding track limits on the final lap must be in a worse position than the rider or riders with whom they are directly competing for a finish position’. Zarco was directly competing, Zarco was second. 

Rulings by RD are final as far as being able to appeal but I hope they overrule themselves and do the right thing for Zarco. And I'm a Mir/Suzuki fan all the way thru, I just want the rules to be applied equally. I have seen other sports (NBA) where you get 'superstar calls' or 'rookie fouls' that aren't at all fair to anyone except the superstar. I'd hate to see even the appearance that somehow one rider is favored over another. With equal application of the rules this won't happen.

Perhaps the track limits infractions are applied instantaneously? Unless, as we saw with Nepa in Moto3 who had 3 seconds added since he did not complete the long lap before the end of the race, a rider has some choice as to when to take that long lap.

If the track limits penalties are applied at the time of the infraction, then Olivera was demoted to 3rd for a fraction of second before Mir was re-demoted back to 3rd. However, it does seem that Race Direction rulings are of the "black box" type.

I have not posted in a very long time, unable to participate whilst coping with a tragedy. I'm slowly getting back to normalcy and... motomatters. this race weekend was so full of commotion and emotion ... one precious life lost, and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. That kind of incident can never be eliminated unless we stop racing altogether. 

I appreciated both reactions from Quartararo and Bagnaia, one thinking at this lost life on every lap, the other who candidly says that he wanted to go home. One won, the other binned it in less than one lap: my total respect to both.

With that terrible, dark event weighing on everyone, it's almost a welcoming thought to be cavilling about that obscure track limits rule... IMO, as very often is the case, the stewards never miss an opportunity for showing their utterly erratic line of thought. Yes, probably Zarco should be on the podium, but the rule in itself is written in a way that it does not contemplate a third party in the mix. This should become a problem solving when passing an IQ test... full disclosure i'm unable to solve it... 

What bothers me is that the ruling body shows unflinching determination when discussing 1cm on/off the track but has no ruling on someone who blatantly follows for 15 minutes another rider highly disturbing his quali on purpose. If I had been in Vinales leathers I would have stopped in pitlane. my loss, his loss too. They punish them in moto3 for this, why not in the bigger class? Are we going to see this again next week? And the week after? but everybody will be too busy watching slow motions of track limits to notice?

I'm waiting for David's round up to react about the race : I look forward to understanding the Zarco/Bastianini incident... I guess some new ruling will be announced soon on the limits of lining up before the start...

If this had happened to any other rider but Viñales we wouldn't be having these discussions.  Why? No other rider would have let Marc into their head like this and it wouldn't have happened.  They would have put their head down and done the best lap they could no matter who was getting a tow.  Marc's actions only seem egregious in light of how Mav handled the situation. 

That said, I think we're going to see more of a slightly desperate Marquez staying within the rules but not worrying about appearances.

1) Green Paint: wasn't the reason for this rule to penalize a rider 'gaining an unfair advantage'? Tell me how he gained an unfair advantage? Miller said it perfectly: Oli was vertical when he 'touched' the line, not at 45 degrees. If the green would have been grass, nothing would have changed. You have a rider working his ass off for 45 minutes and then some penciled dick stewart(s) making a decision about a .05 sec 'infraction'. Ridiculous!!!!
2) HRC: is there some soul searching at HRC? Your bike is a pile of crap! Without a healthy 'Superman', Aprilia finished in front of you and kicked your ass! They have benefited (understatement of the decade), that in the last 10 years, they've had TWO 'freaks' riding their bikes. I'm not just picking on HRC....Ducati been doing the same since Stoner. 
3) Folks handle/process things 'differently' then others. I was SWAT my entire LE career and saw several unable to deal with the aftermath of some 'operations'. No judgements, just a different processing pathway.